Firstly, I want to mention how consciousness is a strange thing to me. Some things seems to have it and other things not. It seems to arise out of higher complexity and arrangement. Out of nature consciousness arose, but is nature itself conscious? It seems a part of it would have to be because all conscious things are a part of nature.
If we look at the breakdown of the 7 intelligences (click on my tab about this) we find an example of each of those skills in nature. We even see random and non-random processes in both the processing of the brain and in that of the processes of nature. But where is consciousness found in nature then?
In my view, you cannot have freedom of choice without consciousness. Let's break down the parts.
Consciousness to me is a stream of memory PLUS an internal life. An internal life is an experience, often with subjectivity and suffering of some kind.
The first steps are like this:
Basic Awareness + Basic Memory. A bacteria may be at this point, but his memory is so short at 4 seconds that it does not allow enough time for his full awareness to take effect.
Basic Awareness and a Prolonged memory would occur afterward and at the Cambrian Explosion. This internal life is an experience, a prolonged awareness because of the prolonged memory...but it doesn't have much in the way of suffering since they did not have a physical way to suffer. However they are choosing paths to food and home.
Now with Fish we see some physical suffering and so this an internal life, plus prolonged memory and basic awareness. Now have more complicated choices, not just of where to go for food and home, but how to avoid physical pain. Fish are making choices to avoid suffering too.
Now consciousness becomes more complicated when emotions are introduced on a basic level with amphibians and reptiles. I think because they make simple croaking and snarling sounds that this verbal communication is correlated to their emotional capacity.
With birds some basic thought makes it more complicated, as well as a more complicated emotional network.
Then with mammals more complicated emotion and though make consciousness even more complex and choices even more difficult.
If we look at the breakdown of the 7 intelligences (click on my tab about this) we find an example of each of those skills in nature. We even see random and non-random processes in both the processing of the brain and in that of the processes of nature. But where is consciousness found in nature then?
In my view, you cannot have freedom of choice without consciousness. Let's break down the parts.
Consciousness to me is a stream of memory PLUS an internal life. An internal life is an experience, often with subjectivity and suffering of some kind.
The first steps are like this:
Basic Awareness + Basic Memory. A bacteria may be at this point, but his memory is so short at 4 seconds that it does not allow enough time for his full awareness to take effect.
Basic Awareness and a Prolonged memory would occur afterward and at the Cambrian Explosion. This internal life is an experience, a prolonged awareness because of the prolonged memory...but it doesn't have much in the way of suffering since they did not have a physical way to suffer. However they are choosing paths to food and home.
Now with Fish we see some physical suffering and so this an internal life, plus prolonged memory and basic awareness. Now have more complicated choices, not just of where to go for food and home, but how to avoid physical pain. Fish are making choices to avoid suffering too.
Now consciousness becomes more complicated when emotions are introduced on a basic level with amphibians and reptiles. I think because they make simple croaking and snarling sounds that this verbal communication is correlated to their emotional capacity.
With birds some basic thought makes it more complicated, as well as a more complicated emotional network.
Then with mammals more complicated emotion and though make consciousness even more complex and choices even more difficult.
Memory+logic is to living things kinda like natural law is to non-living things. At least in giving directed movement.
And memory is fundamental I think for the step to living things. From particles to complex chemistry (virus) and simple biology (bacteria).
In biological evolution --mutations or genetic drift or draft makes things happen randomly at first, but then a direction is taken through natural selection.
All of nature goes from random to non-random. Non living things and living thing. And while this direction is not proved to be conscious or external, it is very much innate and a part of nature itself.
So, I would argue yes nature is purposeful, guiding, and directed —because it it were not we would not have any non-random movement at all anywhere and we have plenty of it.
This is what gives everything the “illusion of design”.
But in fact you could say -the bacteria is moving toward the attractant, why? because it is attracted to it, why? because it wants to be and to become. It wants to survive and grow. But it does not have a consciousness, a stream of memories, and so what makes it want to survive? It is an innate quality of nature itself.
CONSCIOUSNESS is thought by the many scientists studying this to be linked to the quantum level.
The energies are so high, I would predict that once the brain shuts off the energies would have to linger for a period of time before vanishing, because of the "echo" of energy left behind.
But we have to understand this quantum consciousness better to build machines to measure it properly.
Below is my working idea which began before finding their work. I've since inserted some of their work in purple into my own ideas to see fully how this process occurred.
I also have finished with some Genesis overtones, for those of you interested in that subject. For those of you not interested in it at all, you might just skip it.
CONSCIOUSNESS- is an Inner Life. A sequence of events and experiences of this inner life.
(Hameroff and Penross supply their theory here)
Experiences/Self/Choice/Transition from proto-consciousness to consciousness/Non algorithmic thought processes
My working idea is below:
LEVEL 1- of Living Things. However Choice does exist in non-living things in paths taken. Choosing path A over path B for example, first randomly and then by natural laws/order. Living things work this ay. First they are random and then they are more ordered given more information which requires memory to hold.
Occupies Physical Space- Viruses
Physical Sensation Awareness- Plants, Fungi (Few Microtubules).
Interesting is the Mimosa plant in Thailand and India. I had the pleasure of doing this in Thailand. When you touch it with your fingers, it goes to sleep and closes its leaves.
Physical Sensation Awareness Plus Memory (CHOICE)—Bacteria/Protozoa/Single-celled organisms like paramecium, Memory T cells
Don't forget that DNA itself is one long string of "memory" that is "recalled" by expression of proteins and other controlling elements, and is subject to mutation and adaptation to different situations.
(Hameroff/Penrose- Microtubules- “Bacteria and protozoa like paramecia are below that line (100s of neurons), so, in this view, they would not be conscious. They would be more like proto-conscious—something like a primitive sub-conscious or dream state.”)
Programmed choice like that of a robot or computer.
Survival/Instinctual choice based on simple memory.
Survival/Instinctual choice based on simple experience.
Comparative choice based on comparing thoughts or emotions of memory and experience.
I would say this group of animals falls into the second category of choice behavior and is seen because the bacteria actually has non random behavior when it comes into contact with an attractant, and so it is choosing to go toward it versus not.
Physical Sensation Awareness Plus Memory Plus FEELS Physical Pain/Pleasure: (CHOICE?)
(All have brain-nerve connections required to feel physical pain?)
This level has the first level of thought because it will make a choice based on experience (memory plus consciousness). Simple consciousness is this level. Thought evolves into higher levels which means also memory evolves into higher levels and somewhere along the lines emotions comes in which I'd say occur somewhere after reptiles and before birds.
Invertebrates, some Vertebrates like Worms, Sea Urchins, Mollusks, Fish, Bugs, Amphibians, Reptiles
This level has the first level of thought because it will make a choice based on experience (memory plus consciousness). Simple consciousness is this level. Thought evolves into higher levels which means also memory evolves into higher levels and somewhere along the lines emotions comes in which I'd say occur somewhere after reptiles and before birds.
Invertebrates, some Vertebrates like Worms, Sea Urchins, Mollusks, Fish, Bugs, Amphibians, Reptiles
(Hameroff/Penrose-Microtubules- “The highly parallel arrangement can facilitate computation and quantum coherence.”
“However the work I've done with Roger Penrose predicts a threshold for emergence of conscious experience at a level of microtubule complexity and quantum coherence in roughly hundreds of neurons. This level is found, for example, in small worms, tiny sea urchins, and other very simple creatures.”
“If all the microtubules in about 100 neurons were in a quantum state for 500 milliseconds—a half second —a conscious event would then occur. For a more intense experience involving 1000 neurons, it would be 50 milliseconds. We claim each event is conscious because it selects a pattern in fundamental reality, and we conclude that experience is "funda-mental"—embedded at the nitty-gritty level of the universe. A series of conscious events gives a stream of consciousness.”)
Programmed choice like that of a robot or computer.
Survival/Instinctual choice based on simple memory.
Survival/Instinctual choice based on simple experience.
Comparative choice based on comparing thoughts or emotions of memory and experience.
Survival/Instinctual choice based on simple memory.
Survival/Instinctual choice based on simple experience.
Comparative choice based on comparing thoughts or emotions of memory and experience.
I would say this group of animals falls into the second and third category of choice behavior and is seen because the bee bases some of its behavior on memory of experience to survive. When faced with a stressful event, it reacts as not wanting to go out and experience that again.
When do they become aware of what they are doing? How do we test this?
Hameroff and Penrose suggest that the ability to know what one is doing is with consciousness, I tend to disagree with this. For example in the Cambrian life, I don't think they knew what they were doing--as in consciously choosing. To know what one is doing one has to have comparative thought.
But they are making choices based on experiences of pleasure or pain which aids in its survival. But then bacteria does this too. The difference is that the bacteria can only do this for a minor fraction of a second, while an animal with consciousness can do this for a series of events, a full stream of memories or consciousness.
Are they really comparing thought? I think only the birds and mammals can do this and we see this in their behavior.
A test for choosing: A Bacteria/ Mollusk/Fish/Frog/ is given a path which provides a negative outcome and a path which provides a positive outcome and does he remember which path to take because it was favorable. This would demonstrate active memory toward a positive outcome, a simple choice. A bacteria could not do this, because its memory is so short, it could not remember which path was better. But because of consciousness --experience-- we can now make conscious choices that are better for us in a given environment. A bacteria given the same path each time, and the same fork in the road would never learn which fork to take to avoid the pain. It would just move randomly and have a 50% chance each time of making the same mistake. Conscious beings learn from experience and can now choose which agh to take given that fork in the road to bring them less pain.
I tend to think this ability developed over time. I don't think the first animals with consciousness could do this completely. It seems rather speedy, but would like to see some lower forms tested.
Energy Conservation:
The creation of thought and emotion itself it seems is something —some kind of energy— is created in this process? Violation of conservation of energy?
Hameroff/Penrose— It turns out that evolution is nonlinear. Life started about 4 billion years ago-simple life, algae, and so forth. Then came the nucleated cell, then eukaryotic cells, but still, life evolved very minimally, reaching only very simple multicellular organisms until about 540 million years ago. Then, abruptly, there was this huge acceleration in evolution, which is called the "Cambrian Explosion."
Within 10 million years, all the phyla that exist today formed, and life took off. Why? Well, there are a lot of possible reasons. But it turns out that the size of the organisms at the beginning of the Cambrian explosion very closely matched what we would predict for conscious experience. They were small worms and tiny sea urchins. Fossils of these urchins, for example, look very much like present day tiny urchins whose spines are giant complexes of microtubules. So the hypothesis is that these were the first conscious entities, that one day there was sufficient quantum coherence in the nervous system of one of these the worms or the spines of an urchin to self collapse and experience happened-some little urchin or worm suddenly had an experience. Having experience and being able to choose non-computably was beneficial for survival and evolution accelerated.Physical Sensation Awareness Plus Memory Plus FEELS Physical Pain Plus Awareness of Doing (Choice) Plus FEELS Emotional Pain (Responsive and Attachment of Emotion)-
Physical Sensation Awareness, Plus Memory, Plus FEELS Physical Pain, Plus Awareness of Doing (Choice), Plus FEELS Emotional Pain (Responsive and Attachment to Emotion), Plus has thoughts about these emotions-
To test if something has emotional attachment or response I think we need to see if it is bonded with another living thing. For example, we see clearly mammals forming bonds with others of their species and outside their species. Many times we can see they are sad when their friend dies.
We can see birds pair up too and make friends. I think we can see sometimes a change in behavior with them as well when their friend dies.
However, I don't see this with reptiles, amphibians, or fish. I don't see this emotional attachment. They stay in a group for physical warmth or survival, but I don't see an emotional connection. Also, Dr. Ross, suggests Fish do not have the part of the brain needed for emotions. Will look into amphibians and reptiles.
Birds, Mammals
When we look at the honeybees http://www.cell.com/current-biology/retrieve/pii/S0960982211005446
What we are seeing is still a memory of a physical sensation —which even a bacteria has.
We are not seeing an emotional response or an emotional attachment. Pessimism —for lack of a better word — would describe the memories of physical experience-not the emotional experience. The experience the honeybees are having is a physical one. Of course if they had stress introduced to their systems, their systems will remember this and be less likely to venture outward.
This does not show emotional attachment or response,
“The brain itself needs to have an area where emotions are experienced. Dr. Ross, a neuroscientists of 30 years says fish do not have this part of the brain.”
I’d argue: Hunger is a physical sensation.…a fish doesn’t experience emotional fear but physical fear. A fish doesn’t have an emotional response to the negative stimuli, it has a physical response. What it is experiencing is a physical sense of fear, not an emotional one. This physical sense developed out of its memory of a prior negative physical experience. This experience is stored in its brain to avoid it in the future. It doesn’t have an emotional attachment -just a physical one.
Programmed choice like that of a robot or computer.
Survival/Instinctual choice based on simple memory.
Survival/Instinctual choice based on simple experience.Comparative choice based on comparing thoughts or emotions of memory and experience.
I would say this group of animals falls into the second, third, and fourth category of choice behavior and is seen because when we observe mammals giving up their young because of stressful events, they seem to go back and forth and have conflicted feelings and thoughts about this.
Physical Sensation Awareness Plus Memory Plus FEELS Physical Pain Plus Awareness of Doing (Choice) Plus FEELS Emotional Pain (Responsive and Attachment of Emotion) Plus FEELS Mental Pain-
Primates
All of the prior group, only at more advanced levels.
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Genesis reference:
What is interesting to me as well is the Genesis account:
Significant words:
Day- means order or non random
Evening -means chaos or random
Good -means that which has chance of survival and serves His purpose—not perfect.
God Said- His word makes thing happen, to move things.
Divided-
Gathering-
Giving-
Asah -something physical, a natural process (doing, accomplishing, observing, preparing)
Bara- something spiritual or supernatural
NOTEWORTHY: Day one and two is about dividing and universe. Day three is about Earth gathering and giving plants. Day four is about Earth (stars/sun/moon), Day five is about Earth’s water giving (animals), Day six is about Earth giving (humans)
We can see the universe, animals, and humans get Bara and Asah. Nothing else. Bara is used for the universe and animals and humans. Asah appears for the planets/Earth, the stars/sun/Moon, animals and humans. Interesting.
Jewish Rosh Hashanna uses three trumpet blows. One for creation of everything. One for creation of soul of animals. One for creation of spirit of man. These are the three purposes of Bara.
The universe, animals, and mankind all have a spiritual purpose and a physical purpose.
But what about asah? This is a physical process. There are important natural processes taking place when asah is used, and when studying the text you find out what those are. For the development of planets, stars, animal emotions, human intellect.
Plants are NOT given a bara or asah in the creation account…but we do find something here: Isaiah 41:19-20
19 qI will put in the wilderness the cedar,
the acacia, the myrtle, and the olive.
I will set in the desert rthe cypress,
the plane and the pine together,
20 that they may see and know,
may consider and understand together,
that sthe hand of the Lord has done this,
the Holy One of Israel has created (bara) it.
Some say this means Bara is out of preexisting things, but firstly these were formed out of nothing. Everything was formed out of nothing. Genesis 1:1 shows this and so does science. This is one emphasis. Secondly, everything has a spiritual purpose or connection to the creator (source). This is the other emphasis. This passage means one, it was all from nothing and two it all had a spiritual connection before it has a physical one.
When Bara is used we should be thinking about the spiritual connection. When asah is used we should be thinking about the physical and natural.
Day one:
God Bara —creating— all the universe (stars and planets)
Void of Empty space
Darkness
Darkness
Spirit of God hovering overs Waters
God said and light (order/non random) happened
God divided order from chaos —non random from random—gravity/laws/forces from chaos of empty space.
So- chaos was first and then order came. Space has 2 properties, that of dark energy and that of curvature (gravity). It is this RELATIONSHIP that is vital, that allows for everything to come about…emptiness on its own does not yield our universe, though it spits our virtual particles. Curvature of space alone does not either. But together, emptiness within space-time (gravity) does yield our universe.
Emptiness provides the "stuff" and the pressure expunging our universe and space-time (Gravity) provides the framework.
Emptiness provides the "stuff" and the pressure expunging our universe and space-time (Gravity) provides the framework.
Emptiness is very random. The beginning states and ending states are predictable, but the in between states are not.
Random and non random. Everything in nature has these two qualities. Everything that is accident/chance/random you can derive, in my opinion, from the randomized energy of the quantum level -which resides in the electron and virtual particles of empty space. Everything that is ordered, shows natural law and natural forces comes from the interaction of the quantum level to the classical level. As the quantum becomes classical it begins to become ordered. There seems to be a correlation with higher energy levels and complexity and order versus lower energy levels, complicity and randomness.
Random and non random. Everything in nature has these two qualities. Everything that is accident/chance/random you can derive, in my opinion, from the randomized energy of the quantum level -which resides in the electron and virtual particles of empty space. Everything that is ordered, shows natural law and natural forces comes from the interaction of the quantum level to the classical level. As the quantum becomes classical it begins to become ordered. There seems to be a correlation with higher energy levels and complexity and order versus lower energy levels, complicity and randomness.
Day two:
God said
God asah —made— dome
God divided prime matter from above and below. Shaping of planets from universe.
Asah is used here for the natural construct of the planets/Earth and their relationship to the universe.
Day three:
God said
Earth gathering -land/water
God Said
Earth giving -protozoa/plants/bacteria
Day Four:
God said
God asah— made —two great lights
God puts them for Earth
Asah is used here for the natural construct of the stars/ sun/moon and their relationship to Earth.
Day Five:
God said Let water swarm with swarms (fertility)
God bara —creating soul of all animal life—cambrian life forms, bugs, water life, amphibians, reptiles
From the science of above we can see consciousness occurs here. The soul and consciousness appears, to me, to be interconnected.
Day Six:
God said let Earth bring animals.
God asah —made— the land animals/birds
Asah is used here for the physical understanding of animals from the Earth and in relationship to the Earth.
I would say that emotions/thoughts occur here too which brings consciousness to a higher state. An emotional connection to each other and to the Earth and to ourselves is being formed here naturally -asah is natural. Also simple thoughts. This also means emotional suffering and joy.
God said let us asah—make— humankind in our image
God bara —creating spirit of hominids—in his image
in the image of God he bara
male and female he bara
Asah is used here for the physical understanding of humans from the Earth and in relationship to the Earth.
I would say that higher abstract intellect occurs here which brings consciousness to an even higher state. An intellectual connection to each other and to the Earth and to ourselves is being formed here naturally -asah is natural. This also mean intellectual suffering and joy. This includes all hominids, all apes.
I would say that higher abstract intellect occurs here which brings consciousness to an even higher state. An intellectual connection to each other and to the Earth and to ourselves is being formed here naturally -asah is natural. This also mean intellectual suffering and joy. This includes all hominids, all apes.
Yatsar is also used in Genesis 2 for hominids. This emphasizes the purpose of the relationship of mankind to the Earth.
AFTER -THOUGHT:
When we look at the evolution of life, what do we see?
We see water animals -fish- few nerve pains for the physical body, few emotional pains? thoughts?
When we look at reptiles we see more nerve pains? more emotions? more thoughts?
When see mammals we have a definite increase in physical and emotional pain and thoughts about our feelings?
When we see primates we have physical pain, emotional pain, pain in thoughts, thoughts about our feelings.
Humans we have a definite level physical pain, emotional pain, and thoughts about our feelings and also pain in thought itself -mental illness.
Our pain levels seem to be increasing as this evolutionary growth takes place - from simple to complex because of diversification (because something inside of life wants to diversify)….and probably because all energy wants to go toward entropy and the fastest way there is by way of order and complexion.
Wouldn’t other levels be increasing too? intellect? consciousness? intuition? feelings? So, why wouldn’t our feelings and thoughts reach higher levels of consciousness? or connectedness to the energy around us? Why would’t our intuitions reach higher levels of seeing?
I think this is a possibility for how consciousness is like the spirit in homo sapiens…because these energy levels are so high within the intellect, that they can reach the higher energy more so than a fish would be able to do.
It is funny how some of the first mysteries solved are of cosmological and biological evolution and hints at both origins, but the consciousness --that which is closest to us in both space and time-- is the last mystery we are unraveling.
When we are able to more fully understand consciousness and its energy involvement and whether it is connected to the quantum nature of things --then we might be able to build machines to bette measure these things.
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