Is Consciousness Inevitable?

Consciousness, is it inevitable?

When we look at energy we see it runs toward entropy and likes to take the fastest path there. So, from that we have determined that energy goes into order and higher organization in fact to reach the fastest path to entropy. More energy will be used up. 

However- this seems to mean that high organization of particles is inevitable then. Though you can say this accident happen or that random thing...it seems eventually the higher organization will occur. Then, Consciousness occurs in this higher organization of things...consciousness is like a by product of this higher order of particles....and it seems inevitable to me because nature goes from random to non-random and chaos to order and because nature keeps moving forward building upon itself and is persisting toward the fastest path to entropy. But then it is also inevitable. So, my question now is on one hand consciousness seems inevitable and on the other hand there are many 'accidents or random things that occur' before it happens. So it is like an inevitable accident?

Or perhaps the game is set up to allow for random and accidents, but in the end consciousness will eventually prevail.

Nature and Consciousness

It is just strange to think about that right now you can contemplate this rock outside, this universe, this sun and the arm on your body and even the brain with which out of you are contemplating....and yet nothing in nature can do that expect that which has a brain (that we know of). 

Actually, I think our brains are an exact reflection of nature itself. We often hear "Is it a coincidence that maths can represent nature and our own brains are capable of maths too?"

But all the skills our brains can do can be found in nature.

We have spacial skills/intelligence, and there is space in nature to perceive.

We have kinesthetic skills and all of nature moves its particles, chemistry, biology. 

We have musical skills and nature is made of all kinds of sounds and patterns of sounds to perceive.

We have linguistic skills and nature is made up of all kinds of communication. Two hearts put next to each other will start beating in sync. Electrons perhaps communicate instantly with each other across the universe according to some studies. Even bacteria communicate. 

It seems to me that on every level of nature: Quantum, Physical, Chemistry, and Biology we can find all the skills that we find in our brains as well.

Our brains are even wired for random vs nonrandom patterns. People say creative vs logical, but that is not true. Recent studies show both sides of the brain can do both...but it is How the information is organized or coming into our brains. 

So, is it any wonder that in nature we find both random and non random processes.

We have interpersonal skills, and all of nature has relationships. Gravity is the relationship of two massive bodies. Etc...one ting works because of its relationship to another thing. 

We have interpersonal skills, knowing oneself, and all of nature seems to want to duplicate itself. From DNA and even to physical things. I mean why do we have lots of water molecules, why not just one. Conformity seems important to nature. Even virtual particles (from my reading) seem to pop in and conform in a sense, because if they don't they can't remain. 


It makes sense that our brains would reflect nature since they came out of nature...so in understanding our own minds and consciousness I think we will understand more about nature too. 

So, then what of consciousness....I would like to see more studies in science actually.  

But one more thing, If our brains came from nature and are a part of nature, and our brains have consciousness...then nature in a sense is conscious -or at least a part of it, because it is a product of nature and is nature itself. 

Nature and the Brain

We have seven sure intelligences according to Gardner. Mathematical, Spacial, Kinesthetic, Musical, Linguistic, Interpersonal, Intrapersonal. I'm an educator and so these intelligence's are taught to us as teachers to better educate our students. 

SO, it is interesting we can find all those SKILLS in nature as well.

Our brain came from nature, so it is a reflection of nature. It should be able to give us clues into what nature is.

Our brains are wired to perceived random and non random processes. It is not that one side is creative and the other is logical. Both sides can be either. This is shown in recent studies. The difference is in how they approach the problems and perceive the world.

We also know nature is both random and non random. We can see in genetics and in mathematics, in biology, and in physics that nature has random aspects but also non-random aspects too. It seems things go from random to non-random.

Nature is also very mathematical! Is this a coincidence? Of course not. Our brains came from nature so of course our brain would be perceiving what nature is!

Let us look at the seven main intelligences.

Nature is mathematical. Our brains are wired for maths. Nature has space and dimension. Our brains are wired for spacial intelligence. Nature has sounds and our brains our wired for music/sound and patterns. Nature moves and our brains our wired Kinesthetically.

When we look at a particle spinning beautifully it has a kind of kinesthetic intelligence. When we see a dancer circle beautifully she exemplifies this same ability. Particles are also always moving. Movement is essential for nature to function.

When we look at how the universe is arranged we can sum it up mathematically and then we also have people who are mathematically gifted.

When we look at nature we see a universe of space and dimensions and everything around us occupies space and dimension and there are people who are very specially inclined and who can visualize spaces inside their mind perfectly.

When we look at nature we can hear sounds permeating from objects hitting each other or from the friction of something or spin of something and there are also people who are musically inclined to hear patterns of sounds well.

Is it any wonder that our human intelligence also posses these qualities?

What about linguistic, interpersonal and interpersonal qualities of nature?

We can see linguistics on a fundamental level in nature too when we look at the communication of bacteria or when we put a heartbeat next to another heartbeat and they conform to each other or how we have a quark and the majority of virtual particles that pop in are quarks (though some might be photons or gluons). There seems to be a communication on a fundamental level.

While humans use language, we can see all of nature has a basic form of communication from physics to genetics and chemistry.

We can see interpersonal skills in nature when we look at physics and particles having to interact with fields and when we look into genetics and see how the interactions have to interact with each other. Nature does have many inter-relationships on a fundamental level.

Humans have relationships with the outside world, and nature fundamentally has interactions with other parts of nature all the time.

Even with interpersonal skills we see in nature that genes duplicate themselves and even with virtual particles, because the majority of virtual particles pop in according to whatever is there -it seems it conforms-- there is a kind of duplication there as well.

While humans might have a good interaction with themselves, nature also fundamentally keeps a good relationship with itself by duplicating itself.


So, I just thought these correlations were interesting and wanted to share them.

It is also interesting that all animals have various intelligences and all these intelligences are reflections of what nature is as well, in my opinion.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ingrid-newkirk/one-of-many-animals_b_1836537.html



The next question is Memory. We see memory is our conscious minds, in the conscious minds of animals and even of bacteria. We find memory in cellular memory in the duplication of DNA/RNA. Do particles, electrons, and virtual particles possess a certain memory as well?

Does memory exist on a fundamental level? This is important because how are our experiences retained if a Spirit exists? Memory or experience, if retained, on a particle level would be a very interesting finding. 


Further, when we reach the most fundamental form of energy that we are aware of today which are virtual particles, we find probability equations. Perhaps not actual space or time or a physical things, But a probability.

It is kind of like an idea in a mind. I have an idea and it has a probability of coming to fruition or not, of surviving or not. Perhaps when we say the Mind of God, it is a lot like the probability distribution of the virtual particle in some ways. I would say not in all ways, but in some ways.

Side Note:

Mathematics is ahead of science, because science is limited by what we can see, hear, taste, touch, smell —basically measure and so science is limited by our own consciousness, our own minds.

BUT Maths is not. Maths is not limited by experience or experiment which are limited by our own conscious experience and ability to measure.

MATHS shows us what reality is though we cannot use an experiment to show us this is a fact. But the maths must come back to us time and time again as yielding us the correct results, then we rely on them. In this sense, maths does it job for showing virtual particles exist; however briefly, out of the nothingness, the void.

In this sense, we can understand everything better when we realize maths is like our own intuitions. Our correct intuitions can tell us a reality. Someone I loved has just been hurt, killed. This guy or this situation feels really bad. Or I completely saw that coming. While we may not be able to justify our intuition with a real experiment or scientific method…our intuitions can very well be right —showing us an aspect of reality beyond physical measurable means.

So, should it surprise us that maths do the same thing?

Some aspect of reality simply cannot be measured by observation or justified by science. Some aspects of reality simply have to be derived in other ways, 

Consciousness and brain, Soul and Spirit

One of the best conversations. I agree consciousness emerges from brains, but what is this energy? Thought energy? Emotion energy? How powerful is it? Is it possible that this energy is so high that after the brain shuts off it flickers, lingers? Does nature leave behind Natural Echoes of Energy? or Natural Echoes of Consciousness? 

Does Conscious Energy have any links to Quantum Energies?

Apes do a lot of self reflective consciousness too, not just humans. Apes can play pretend, and dolphins are self conscious. Animals are capable of this on some level. However I would say all animals have a consciousness and all animals have a soul, because the consciousness is the immaterial life- the soul and spirit is an immaterial life- an energy that is immaterial.
So, the question resides in energy which is of an immaterial existence and does this retain memory/experience/life?

But humans have a spirt. They are both immaterial as conscious energy is I would say, but the spirit is a horizontal path where the soul is a vertical path. 

The question is does this soul and spirit exist after the material brain shuts off, meaning is there an immaterial life that is created from the material life that persists in the immaterial after the material has ended. That is what interests me.

The immaterial exist because of the material...it birthed it in a way. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4EjO-7Wynd0

What does existence mean?

Well you can't have a choice without a consciousness and memory. Having a memory is very important, otherwise what is your choice based on without information? How is information stored? In various types of memory. Memory surprisingly goes very deep into the fundamentals of nature. How can you make a conscious choice about your memory without consciousness?

So, free will is basically a conscious informed choice. A result of consciousness and memory (which supplies information however little that information is).

However there is cellular memory, but does it have consciousness? Probably not.

Bacteria has memory, does it have consciousness? Probably not full consciousness. 

Do plants have memory or consciousness? I think they have memory to an extent too, but not full consciousness. 

Do particles have memory, and what about consciousness? I think particle have a certain level again of memory possibly, but not full consciousness. 

Can a quantum computer have consciousness? and if so then can't the universe? This is the tricky one. 


Further what does it mean to exist? I exist because I'm conscious to observe it and experience it. Without consciousness I would have no experience and no observations and so would I exist? Would a tree exist if it had no consciousness to experience or observation of it?

I know you can simply say of course it exists because it is there regardless of whether I'm there or not. But does it really?  If it has no experience of itself then how can it exist? and if it does exist, then what type of existence is it? An unconscious existence? But it certainly has some form of memory. It passes on information to duplicate itself. So information is passed on seemingly whether consciousness is there or not. 

So is energy informed? 


Perhaps energy is not conscious, but it is always informed? Information would have to be retained somehow.

Consciousness and what it all means

 

The real question for me would be how does consciousness exist anyway, and I don't mean just evolutionary explanations...but if the universe and nature in itself is not conscious, then we can see and understand nature yet nature can't do this itself...that just seems strange. Are we somehow superior then to nature and how did consciousness come from something that wasn't conscious? And if the past/present/future are all one and physically, scientifically, everything is one...then wouldn't consciousness be one with it all?

God is not Complex!

I don't agree "God" is complex as many Atheists (Krauss and Dawkins lectures) propose and so this complicates things and makes its existence highly unlikely. They use the argument that things go from simple to complex and so if God existed, how would this highly complex entity exist as the first source per se...

If "God" exists, it would be the most fundamental and simplest form of reality. A Spirit is essentially Nothing or No Thing. 

Complexity adds limits--

Simplicity brings limitlessness--

We see this with empty space, virtual particles, electrons.

Before we knew of these things, we might think something that can cross the universe in a blink of an eye (electrons), something that is entangled to every other part- knowing what and where it is all the time (electrons), something seemingly timeless (electrons in universe), something seemingly limitless (empty space quantum fluctuations), something eternal (energy), something that pops something out of nothing, seemingly all powerful and limitless (virtual particles)....Would have to be a complicated thing.

But of course it is in nature, the most simplest form of nature.

"God" would be the simplest and most fundamental reality. Not being bound by space, time or matter provides limitlessness in its simplicity.

Complexity comes because of matter, space and time....we are complex humans and so we are also very limited -bound by that which makes us complex.

Electrons are very simple and yet very powerful.

The simplest form of nature we have found is electrons and empty space quantum fluctuations. This is the simplest form of energy we know exists.

I think this is one aspect of this infinite energy.

But much of its true nature is hidden from us and we don't experience it in its true fullness. 

What about Characteristics?

I can’t prove to you God is loving or caring, but I tend to think so. I know love exists. I know care exists and I can’t prove those to you either. 

But I do know our brains are a reflection of nature itself. Our brains perceive random and non-randomness and our brains are mathematical. Nature is those three things as well.

So, how did consciousness evolve? how did language? how did love? 

You can say it is an accident or planned, either way it doesn’t matter for this purpose, because the point is those qualities now exist and how does something without the innate capability of forming such qualities-form those qualities?

It does beg the question whether there is an aspect to this fundamental energy, this fundamental reality, that possess qualities such as these. 

But love and care come in a package of living things. We’ve never seen a non-living thing have those qualities, and so we would think then that those qualities would have to exist in a consciousness at least, if not living in the same form as ourselves.

What about consciousness? Intelligence? 

We find these two qualities in highly complex begins, humans we will use as the example. We find humans with intelligence and consciousness; however, it took a lot of time for them to acquire this and we have no examples of either existing without space or time or a physical body that developed into something complex. But I would argue that our consciousness and intelligence is very limited and in fact is limited because our physical bodies our bound by our space-time. However, HOW do electrons know what other electrons they are entangled with are doing? Because they are not bound by Time. They are not physical like we are, but are on a more simple energy form. 

I think electrons are timeless. 

So, if electrons can be timeless and do this, why couldn't a spiritual energy also know things in a way unfamiliar to us?

In a sense this could be called a consciousness, but that would also limit what it actually is because in fact our ideas of consciousness are limited to our very understanding of it which exist in our minds which have limits. 

This is the same with intelligence. When we say this is intelligent. What does that mean? Does this mean God has an IQ of 200? It is very limiting and in fact our own understanding of intelligence is very limited by our own experiences with it within our own minds.

so- God's intelligence and consciousness would work like nothing we know. It would be boundless consciousness and intelligence. Limitless. 

Because of this, it would also come in a simple form. I propose this simplest form is Spiritual energy. 

However- we could use an argument that is more of a physical (measurable) form. 

The main question is does consciousness or can consciousness exist as a simple, fundamental form of reality? or can it only exist as a side effect of a more complex living thing?

Well, we know from the above God could not be complex. So, whatever this consciousness is it would have to be on the scale of simple and fundamental. We do see the quantum nature of things showing us this possibility. So, God would have to fall toward the quantum sphere. 

Does consciousness have to exist in a living thing. Are computers living? I would say no, because they are not born naturally and while they do die and do need energy as food, they don’t grow. Although, a self learning computer could be argued to be growing. But they still were not born naturally, they were made by man. so, by scientific current definitions of living I would say they are not living. 

Yet, perhaps on another planet there are beings that are fully silicon based and live as “computer people” or hybrids of half-silicon and half-carbon. So, there may actually be examples out there that we don’t have of computer type of entities that are living. 

However living things are not only born, they die, need food, and grow. 

God would do none of those things (except possibly grow)

In fact, you could argue the entire universe is like one big quantum computer that at some fundamental level as not born, won’t die and doesn’t eat. But you could argue it does grow. But then does it ever really change since it always remains fundamentally the same stuff?  

Could that entity possess consciousness?

If computers are found to be able to have consciousness I would argue that for sure a God could have consciousness and in fact it could be like the consciousness of a quantum computer. 

This is how consciousness exists without being a living thing as we are used to seeing consciousness appear. 

HOWEVER, By definition God is infinite and so how would God die? If God couldn’t die, then God is not living by standard definitions either. God doesn’t eat and God doesn’t grow. (Or does he?) 

This doesn’t mean God doesn’t have a consciousness. This simply means by our definitions of what qualifies a living thing, in order to be living you must also be able to die and if you can’t then you are not living. Our Computers then are not truly living either, because they were made, not born. However, one day they may be shown to acquire consciousness.  

I’m not so if our computers can have a true consciousness —following in the work of Hameroff and Penrose— which makes this job much more difficult, but the argument for a consciousness in a computer is sometimes compelling and when looking at the quantum level of nature and the possibilities of quantum computers, one has to wonder if these dreams will one day prove to become reality. 

Then, I’d have to really wonder if the quantum universe truly is conscious on some level. Because if quantum computers can acquire consciousness that does leave the spooky door open for the possibility of our quantum universe itself. 

So- we’ve determined the basic characteristics of God as possible.

We’ve determined consciousness could be possible without a “living thing” and since this consciousness would exist in a quantum level ,this consciousness is not complex either, it is as simple as you get —limitless quantum consciousness so to speak.

But can consciousness exist in a simple —not complex- living thing? Well, by our current definitions of living, no. But then God wouldn’t eat and metabolize and God wasn’t born and won’t die. 

So, the important part here isn’t whether God would be living by our scientific current definitions, but whether God would have consciousness?  

And what if the real definition of being alive was truly broader? What if being alive didn’t have to include the scientific current understanding of “living thing”. What if being alive just meant a conscious entity. This would definitely include our computers—because being born would not be a hang-up. 

In fact, the quantum universe is kinda acting like a mother, giving birth to all kinds of non-living and living things. Except, is this universe alive and conscious?

I would propose that true reality is that which we don’t see, hidden or unseen. I would propose it is in this where energy is alive and acts like a conscious quantum computer. And the moment it is seen by us or by nature, it behaves in accordance to our natural laws.  

Consciousness can do all kinds of things from what we’ve seen in nature and in ourselves. It can communicate. It can understand spacial concepts, mathematical concepts, randomness, non randomness, it can have relationships with other non-living things and living things and even with itself. It enjoys music and create sounds. 

...

So God would be a simple infinite illimitable eternal quantum conscious spirit so to speak. But then I'd also argue every definition we impose on God , limits God and God is limitless...so the definition would not truly suit either. 

But it is also possible this consciousness is not derived from the quantum aspects, but derived from the spirit itself and that the quantum nature of the universe simply facilitates this spiritual consciousness.